I think I’m speaking Chinese

I check in on the Forumosa Forums every now and then. If you can manage to get past all the threads where people just bitch about everything that’s wrong with Taiwan and how it should be fixed, there are some interesting threads there.

One of the threads I’ve been reading lately is the “Ways to force people to use Chinese on you” thread. This thread bears particular relevance to me, since I am learning Mandarin and and often like to practice it when Miss Expatriate and I go out.

Now, there are a few problems with this:
1) Many, many people in Taiwan speak English
2) Even more people think they speak English and want to practice
3) Spoken Chinese coming from a white person often goes completely unnoticed

Combine these three factors, and it’s often difficult, I find, to do anything completely in Chinese. Just this last weekend, Miss Expatriate and I went for dinner in Taichung. As soon as we walked in, the hostess was there with a “Hello! Welcome!”

I immediately responded with “[hanzi]你好. 兩位[/hanzi].” (Hi. A seat for 2 people please.)
Her rebuttal: “Yes, come this way please.

I turned to Miss Expatriate and said “I hate her already.”
To be honest, I’ll often completely ignore anyone that speaks English to me. If I’m at the nightmarket and a vendor shouts “Come. Try! Very good!” at me, I’ll keep walking. It annoys me to no end, for a few reasons:

1) They see a white person and they assume I’m American. OK, I am, but I might also be German. What about all the white people in Taiwan that don’t speak English as a first language. How many vendors bother learning “Hello, come try this” in Norwegian? Probably none.

2) They are treating me differently. I’ve lived in Taiwan for 2 years. This is, for all intents and purposes, my home. I have a job, I have my papers in order. I’m at your nightmarket. Why are you treating me as if I’m any different from the hundreds/thousands of other people wandering around looking for a late night snack?

Anyway, it irks me because it makes it that much more difficult to practice Chinese. Getting back to our hostess in Taichung, we ate our meal and then Miss Expatriate left to go get the car while I paid. I knew it was coming. I could see it in our hostesses eyes. I knew she would speak English to me again. I was determined to steer the conversation into Chinese.

I got to the counter and she said “655.” (how much we owed).
I pretended I didn’t understand her and said “[hanzi]多少錢[/hanzi]?” ([pinyin]duo1shao3qian2[/pinyin]) (how much is it?) Actually, I didn’t even say that. Saying that is what would be considered “Textbook Mandarin.” Most locals in Taiwan will shorten it to “[hanzi]多少[/hanzi]” and it comes out pronounced like “[pinyin]dou1sao3[/pinyin]?” I’m fairly certain I say it much like a local, too: Miss Expatriate seems to approve of it and it has worked in many situations before.
She repeated herself, in Chinese this time: “[hanzi]六百五十五[/hanzi].” “Victory!” I thought. I handed her some money. Then, she immediately started writing down the bill and explaining it to me in English!
“2 teas. 20 each.
2 dinners. blah blah blah blah blah” for the entire bill, in English. Immediately after her and I just had our small exchange in Chinese.

Anyway, I suffered through it since I’m much to nice to start yelling at her, even though I really wanted to.

So where does that leave me? Even after I speak Chinese to a local and they answer me in Chinese, they revert back to English for God knows what reason. What else can I do?

I’ve thought of lying and saying “[hanzi]我聽不懂[/hanzi]” (I don’t understand) but that wouldn’t be very nice.
I’ve thought of adopting a very heavy Irish or Scottish accent and letting them struggle with my English then.
I’ve thought of only speaking German when presented with English.

In the end, I guess I’ll just keep trying to speak Chinese, hard as the locals make it. Perhaps I should a try a tactic that seems to have worked for the guys in this video:


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11 responses to “I think I’m speaking Chinese”

  1. Tony Avatar
    Tony

    hmmm, this seems to be at the other end of the scale from foreigners who come out to Taiwan and ‘expect’ everyone to speak their language. Personally I think it’s quite nice and considerate that local Taiwanese make an effort to speak a foreign language to foreigners, particularly in the service industry. Try living in France for a while, and you’ll quickly notice how you’ll be rather rudely dismissed by most if you speak anything other than French.

    And as English is undoubtedly the common global language (I’m not claiming everyone speaks it, but the vast majority do compared to any other language) it’s hardly a valid or fair point to say Taiwanese shouldn’t try speaking English to foreigners without first asking them where they come from, particularly to an obvious Westerner.

    However I definitely appreciate your point as I’m also struggling to practice my Mandarin. In such cases as you mention I simply do one of two things: 1. I just continue to speak in Mandarin and allow them to practice their English in reply. I find if it’s a conversation of any substantial length, the local will typically switch back to Mandarin eventually, unless their English is particular good (and assuming you’re not obviously struggling with Mandarin). 2. If I really want to have the conversation in Mandarin I simply say so in Mandarin (please speak Chinese, thankyou). That usually does the trick, especially if you say it with a smile rather than a frown.

    Regardless, don’t loose your patience with it…you’ll need that to deal with the local drivers!!

    1. asdfgh Avatar
      asdfgh

      “it’s hardly a valid or fair point to say Taiwanese shouldn’t try speaking English to foreigners without first asking them where they come from, particularly to an obvious Westerner.”

      Actually, it is a prejudiced assumption on the part of the locals. People here watch t.v. as if it’s a fucking national sport. Mr. Expatriate’s point is quite valid. No, they don’t need to ask explicitly, but since everyone has seen one episode of any t.v. showcasing white-faced foreigners speaking Chinese (and damn well at that), it is obviously commonplace. Don’t ever make excuses for ignorance. That in of itself is complete stupidity.

  2. anon Avatar
    anon

    They speak English to you for the same reason you want to speak Chinese to them — practice. And I’m sure they’re just trying to be gracious to their guests. Engage them in more substantial conservation than just functional language such as “two please” or “how much” and perhaps they’ll respond in Chinese.

    Also, hate to say this, if you’re not fluent enough in Chinese or speak with a heavy foreign accent, they can tell, so they may just be trying to make things easier for you.

    1. asdfgh Avatar
      asdfgh

      It’s a Chinese-speaking country and having to hear people’s crappy attempt at speaking English isn’t necessary. No one is going to say “逆號” to you in the U.S. if they think you might be from China and can’t understand English.

  3. Scott Avatar

    Hi,

    I know the feeling– being replied to in English, even when you initiate a conversation in standard Chinese. It is annoying.

    It’s like they just don’t get it. It might be a fair question to ask them how they would feel if they went to Australia or somewhere, and wanted to speak English, but everybody there insisted on speaking to them only in bad Chinese.

    Then again, it might not actually be such a fair question– because the Taiwanese people who insist on speaking English to you in Taiwan have probably never been abroad, and probably never intend to. They will probably never know what it feels like to be a foreigner residing in a foregn culture and struggling daily to learn the langauge. So you may be asking too much, because they have been conditioned to behave that way. I guess part of chosing to live as a foreigner is to accept things which cannot be changed.

    That said, the goal to set for yourself is to practice until your Chinese is way better than their English, so there will be no contest. That’s what worked for me when I moved from Texas to Sweden back in the ’90s! I haven’t gotten to that point quite yet in Taiwan, however. I thought Swedish was hard to learn… until I started learning Chinese!

    Also, I’m sure you will make acquaintances among locals who for (whatever reason) either don’t speak English, or are perfectly willing to converse with you in Chinese or Taiwanese.

    I have noticed an interesting social dynamic. Often, it seems to me that people in Taiwan under 40 or so, or people in larger cities who have, like, white collar or middle-class jobs and a college education, etc. are the types of people who seem the least comfortable speaking Chinese with me. There are many exceptions, too, of course– I am making a generalization here. But it’s like they can’t get over the shame of not having learned to speak English in school. Like it is a mark of their lack of academic success or something.

    However, I often find that people who are either blue-collar types, relatively uneducated, especially over 50 or so, taxi-drivers, the woman running the noodle stand, etc. are often very easy-going about speaking with me in Chinese.

    I think one reason may be that they don’t feel any particular shame or regret for never having learned English, because nobody ever asked them to learn it, and no one ever expected them to learn it. So the fact that they can’t speak English does not bother them at all, and that’s one reason it is not such a big deal for them to chat with a foreigner in their own language. That’s the kind of practice that really helps in the long run.

    Is that your experience, too?

    –scott

    photos…

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/21506490@N00/

  4. FD Avatar
    FD

    I just found your blog and have been enjoying your entries. I wonder if you’re still having this experience? I was thinking a bit like the previous poster who said that it might have to do with accent etc. — this is a big thing in places like Germany, where basically everybody has learned English: if your German isn’t to a certain level, or if you seem to not understand, they’ll switch to English and that’s the end of your learning experience.

    After much time in Asia, I fully understand your feeling about people speaking English to you because you’re white – it’s really annoying after a while.

  5. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    Hey buddy, I feel yah.

    My advise is to make friends with Taiwanese who don’t have a “thing” for foreigners.

    Also, stay out of Western themed restaurants, as most of the waitresses their probably have a foreign boyfriend, want to have a foreign boyfriend, or intend on studying abroad or doing a working holiday.

    It’s the blue collar people and older gen. that I have the easiest time getting along with. Not just because I can practice my Chinese with them. They are just far more laid back people in general. They talk about anything, and don’t feel ashamed. Much more open than the uptight fashion conscious youngsters.

    The preppy university kids, and the white collar people are just far more uptight about things. Therefore, when they see you the foreigner, they feel either ashamed their English isn’t that good and don’t say a goddamned thing, or insist on showing off their English the whole time. It’s an Asian thing, not like that in other non East-Asian countries.

    But like someone else said, part of living in a foreign country is accepting the way the locals act. . . Okay maybe just tolerating them is good enough.

    Haha… most of my friends here are Taiwanese though . . . No, really they are! 😉

    1. asdfgh Avatar
      asdfgh

      Good post.

      So-called Western food sucks here anyways. ha

  6. Guilherme Avatar
    Guilherme

    Hello!
    I ve never been to Taiwan.. However I lived for half a year in beijing to improve my mandarin.. I really understand how u feel.. is really frustating!!! Plus, Im pretty sure that happend much more often in Taiwan than in Mainland China..
    Im from Brazil and Im as white as any european or white american, so I had this karma of always been approach in english.. is annoying!

    If any of you is interested in learning languages in different countries, I strongly recommend Brazil, this behavior of insisting in english will NEVER happen here! For 2 reasons, first one, most of people (over 90%) Can´t speak english at all, secondly, Brazilians can be any race or color, so nobody will greet you with a ‘HALLO” in a restaurant, or talking to u in english at subway for example..

    Cheers!

  7. asdfgh Avatar
    asdfgh

    I have to disagree completely with your first point of “many, many people in Taiwan speak English.”

    I used to think this when I first came to Taiwan as I knew that English classes are compulsory in their education system. However, I quickly learned that even after spending 10 plus years taking English classes, a very, very small percentage have a good grasp on the meaning behind the words they have seen or spoken. I would say many, many Taiwanese people have memorized a few survival phrases. Beyond this, they rely very heavily on translating everything they say in English. I have been an educator (yes, a real one-not one of those drunks that going to kindergarten class hungover) here for many, many years. I’ve met the one that presume their level to be high. After they meet me, they learn the meaning of humility. It’s the damn Taiwanese education system here. Anyways, that’s my thinking on it.

    1. The Expatriate Avatar

      Fair enough. I respect your viewpoint. I’ve been in Taiwan and live in academia. I work at a university, attend conferences, publish. I would agree that many students don’t speak English, but it really depends on the school. Go to a National school or a Normal University, and you’ll find undergraduate students getting 850 on the TOEIC who are able to get by in everyday life in English. Many of them go abroad for a year. Professors, as well, tend to have studied in the West and got very good at English.

      Again, we just have different perspectives.

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